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I'd like to preface this message by saying that I'm 20 years old and I've always been interested in building guitars. I love any type of work that involves creating something using my hands (in fact, the only job I've ever had was a sewing business that I started myself), and I love playing guitar as well, so I figure it'd be right up my alley. Because of my experience sewing, I understand that often times the work is going to feel like work, so I'm not getting into guitar building expecting it to be easy/fun all of the time.

I've been researching what I'd actually need to get started building guitars, and it looks like it takes quite a sizable investment to purchase all of the tools and materials. I don't have a ton of money at the moment, but since I am living at home, I currently have more disposable income than I will for a while. So I figure if I'm going to do it, there probably won't be a better time than now.

Since lack of money is an issue, I figure it's not worth the investment if I'm only going to build one guitar. So basically, my question is if it's realistic to expect, after a few years of experience, to make $10,000-$15,000 a year from building guitars? I'm definitely not expecting to get rich off of it, or even moderately wealthy, but I figure if I could make somewhere in that $10,000-$15,000 range, it would be worth it to me.

Any and all advice/opinions/perspective any of you can give me is very much appreciated!

Thanks for reading!

5-6 2000-3000$ guitars per year is doable. But that's income, not profit. You'd have to do your own cost/benefit analysis to see if it would be worth it to you.

Hi! Just to tell you i´m in the same boat as you, just starting to build my first one (a classical guitar). It does take some investment to get started, but many things can be made on the cheap as well. eBay is also an option, as are flea markets and garage sales. Best thing, though, is to find someone with access to some of the tools and that is willing to help you (the OLF might be a good place to start). I had the luck of getting befriended with a fine luthier which is also a nice guy and he is helping me with both his expertise and tools.
Not of much help to you, i´m afraid, but maybe a word of hope.

as for money, others will chime in (oops... they arlready have - i´m a slow typer). it´s true one has to make a living, but OTOH guitar building is such a beautiful thing that if you invest some time and money in it, you´ll never come out empty-handed. at least that is my take on it.

good luck,
Miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

It takes more than a couple years of building a couple here and there to make a guitar that would be, in my opinion, viable to sell.

My advice is don't set out to make this your business. Build some guitars and see how you like it. See if you're any good at it. If years from now it blossoms then yes it is realistic to make the money your throwing out there. Just don't expect it to happen soon, if ever at all.

So get your hands dirty and build some. See if you're any good and if you even like it. Treat it as a outlet for creativity and if it grows into something more then you'll know when you get there.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

And, if you buy most of your machines used (and wisely) you will still have your investment if you choose to sell them later on.

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If you catch the " zoot bug " its more likely to cost you a couple grand a year than make u any money !!

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Ain't THAT the truth!!!

I started out building guitars a long time ago when I was in my early 20s and before there were places like LMI and others. I spent every spare penny on wood and tools and even then it was hand tools only.

I got a job as a patternmaker making wood patterns as molds for thermoplastics which was cool as we used mahogany for molds so there were always scraps I could take and when I had enough money I would buy a whole board. Several of my first necks were from those couple boards. Patternmaking also taught me to work wood to close tolerances which is important in guitar building where all of the wood tends to be small and thin.

The most expensive piece of wood I bought back when I was young, poor and had no money was a 8/4 slab of Brazilian Rosewood which I resawed with a handsaw "ala Franz Klaus" for those that remember those early issues of Fine Woodworking, the new magazine for woodworkers . I still have a couple sets of BRW that I bought from LMI back in their early days when BRW sets sold for $75.00 which seemed expensive (compared to sawing your own plank) but were nice and saved time.

I then got a job repairing guitars in a NY music shop and met guitar builders that went on to be well known so I decided I could make a living building guitars. While I enjoyed building, it became very clear that I would not be able to make the kind of living I needed if I was to get married and have kids. That is not to say that you cant, just that making money is not why you build guitars as even the greatest hand builder who does not turn into a small factory, will make far less than you would think.

Because of life, jobs and family I have built guitars on and off for the last 30 years and followed every trend. I tried the jigs and tools approach to everything, I tried batches of guitars at a time until it felt like building furniture (to me), I attended Jose Romanillos' class for 2 years in Spain where we built everything with hand tools only. I still build classical guitars but have come to the conclusion that it doesnt matter as much about how the guitar looks (1 piece, 2, 3, oe 10 piece backs) as much as how carefully it is built with as good a top as you can find. Trying to only do your best (for your current ability), and the result will be an instrument that sounds good, will be emotionally rewarding ... and that will be worth it.

Shawn

To directly answer your question: I don't think it is realistic, even at that low level of income. Possible. yes but that's not quite the same. Of course you could lose money in the first few years, in fact I think losing money during those years is being very realistic.
Sorry if that isn't the answer you wanted. One way or another I've been in this game for a long time. I've seen many come and go (I include myself, except that I keep returning) and believe me it's one tough nut to crack. Some folk crack it though, so it is entirely possible. In fact some makers attain a fairly decent income from it, they tend to be few and far between.

I'm 14 and have built 2 guitars with one almost done, awaiting a set of strings. I eventually want to make this my career, but thats really more of a dream. I'm thinking of selling my next guitar for about $1000 and gradually raise my prices over the next few years. It would be really nice if this did turn into a career, but I think it will take a really long time before I can charge 10k or more. I don't have many tools, but am gradually acquiring them so I don't think it is really necessary to spend tons of money on lots of tools in the beginning. I'm hoping I can apprentice under Ervin Somogyi if he was serious about me being a good candidate for it. Guitar building is a lot of fun and you should build guitars for fun before considering it for a career IMHO.

If??? Is it even possible NOT to catch the zoot bug?

I got into it specifically with the goal of making my living doingrepairs and building for extra money in my spare time.
I appraoched like any other $30-40K annually job, you have to pay to learn, so I did. I used the money from my day job to finance my education, and it worked out exactly like I thought it would, because I had a goal and a plan.
I officially quit my day job and and became a full time luthier, and made back in my first year full time what I spent the previous 5 learning, and have been doing well ever since.
It's all in how you approach it.
I would say it's DEFINITELY worth the investment, if you stick to it and get good at it, but you must make a committment and see it through if you want to make a living doing luthiery, or anything, really.

Even if it becomes a hobby, it will still be rewarding, so even then I'd say it's worth the investment.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Why yes it is. Instead you can obsess over aesthetics and technique until your brain turns to mush. Seriously. The biggest question that's been going through my head through the past few weeks is what the rosette for my octave mandolin should look like to look right with the motif I'm going for. Among other related things. This stuff eats at me like a virus. Pretty wood with crazy figure and whatnot, however, doesn't do much for me.

As for doing this for a business, pay attention. If you haven't started an instrument yet the question you are answering now is whether you ENJOY THE PROCESS of building an instrument. That is key. Pay attention to what you are feeling, what you struggle with. If you find you enjoy trying new things to make the instrument better, rather than "Oh I'll just get through this bit so I can do this", you have hope. The greatest luthiers, or any craftsman in general, are the ones who make their work more difficult for them by tweaking their technique or process constantly in hopes of getting a greater result and don't even care if it is really difficult, they just want to progress. They seem to thrive on ingenuity, stretching the abilities of their tools to do things the common man wouldn't dream of. If you're really smart you can also stretch your wood way more than most and save some money that way. (Guitar sets aren't just for guitars by the way. )

Since it is assumed that you don't really know yet what it's like to build an instrument, get some books that lay out the process in detail so you have a good idea of what to prepare yourself with. Then, find some people who have the tools you need that you can borrow. Another thing to do is find places that sell "junk" like flea markets and yard sales and look for hand tools. Pretty much anyone who doesn't know or care about what their selling will be a great place to get these things from. Some great deals can be had, and most of your absolute favorite tools, the really good ones that have lots of character, will be found in these places. When you are finally ready to start, decide on what to build. An ukulele is a great thing to start with, because the process is very similar to guitar building, but uses much less material. The little buggers can be way harder to build than you think, and that's always fun. If you must build a guitar, mandolin, whatever, just do it. Your motivation for a new instrument will be your drive these first few builds, next will be money from people who love your work. For now though, just get to where you can build something that looks and sounds like the instrument you are going for. Look on the web and keep coming here for questions so you can get so many viewpoints and ideas your head explodes, then go with one or come up with your own.

On a final note, don't do this looking for a business venture right off. Try it, and then you may find you have to try again, and again, and again, until your work gets so good people ask you to build them something or fix something. When you get a good reputation and your work piles up to where you have no time for your "day job" hardly, congratulations, you are officially a professional luthier!

It's late and I'm tired, so if this comes out sounding like a pile of jumbled nonsense, I apologize.

By the way guitarwhisperer, I found your post very inspirational, especially in the situation I'm in right now. I also agree completely with Filippo.

Answer to the original post?
Yes.

Do the work for awhile. Who knows, you may not have the endurance that you thought you had.

But then again, maybe you do!

Then you'll know what to do.

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I'm currently working on making guitar building my primary occupation. It frustrates me sometimes to hear people say that you cant make money at it, or you shouldn't do that, or its not a good profession. Even luthiers say its not worth it to get into the business sometimes. I understand that not everyone can build a successful business from the ground up, but how about encouraging everyone who dreams of doing it to give it an honest shot? People rarely chase their dreams past their childhood anymore, and that's sad. I wonder what would have happened if CF Martin listened when his peers told him the guitar is a waste of time? Or if Led Zeppelin quit playing after they bombed their first few shows? How many accountants are sitting in their cubicles right now wishing they were astronauts? Or violin players? Or actors? Bottom line is if you want to be a professional guitar builder, build as much as you can with the tools you can afford, and each time you get some extra money or time, devote it to learning more about what you do. Do something you love and you will never work a day in your life. Guitar making has given me more freedom than I have ever had working for someone else. Take the chance while you are still young and don't have a mortgage and a family to worry about.

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http://www.sixgunguitars.com

Brian I'm all for people chasing their dreams. I did. I worked like hell to get to where I am today. I think most of us are suggesting that he try to build before deciding and investing expecting this to become a profession. It's not meant to be discouraging, it's reality. Not everyone has the talent to build a guitar that is good enough to sell. Maybe the OP does, maybe he doesn't. Maybe he is the next CF Martin. Maybe he is just the next person to try and fail. Anything is possible. Most of us are telling him to actually try building some before making a life altering decision that may be bad for him. He has received some good advice here. In fact pretty much everything everyone here has said is correct in different ways.

My advice to the OP is still to just treat it as a hobby and see if you like it, and if you are any good at it. If the answers are both yes then that still doesn't mean you should make a business out of it, but it's a start.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Like any buisness - your sales and marketing skills cant eb overlooked... and you nedd some luck as well. There are full time makers out there who build compentent quality instruments and make a decent living... but there are otehrs who have arguably more talent, make better instruments but cant amke it work as a business... thats life and you need an element of luck to.

If you love the art, then go for it because career or not, you will not regret it... creating something like guistars is rewarding on its won, even if in a pure amateur fashion... but it can become an expensiceve hobby!

Being your own boss is always worth it.


unless you're talking about making money. then, experience, unrelenting hard work, and an immense amount of responsibility will get you to the starting gate. What i mean is, if you possess those traits/skills then you could be poised to do well in your business. however, market demand, pricing, the overall quality of your instrument making skills, your ability or desire to fix problems that will come up with your builds is what will actually make you successful or not.

I own a construction company and we deal with a ton of subcontractors. I'm always most interested in talking to the Millwork and custom cabinet shops because of my woodworking interest, and i can tell you that they not only make a very small margin, but they bust their asses seven days a week to do it. But the good ones really love what they do. One guy is a tool, wood, design junky. His bread and butter is white melamine coated, plastic laminated, particle board core cabinets for restaurants. He grind them out day after day. Once in awhile he gets a very rich customer who wants cabinets made from exotic woods, with inlays and custom moldings. This is where he really is passionate.

So what i'm saying is, first you have to be skilled, then you have to be willing to work 60+ hours a week, then you need some knowledge of the paperwork/taxes/accounting aspects of business, and then you need some solid word-of-mouth or marketing outlets.

Either way you cut it, producing a commercially successful product is partly luck, and mostly skills.

If you're passionate, go for it. If you want to make some money from your hobby, think twice. Sometimes hobbies become half-ass jobs and will cost you stress and money.

my 2cents

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